A “non-solar company” perspective of getting money from PG&E for our solar production. Knowing what I know today, I would have put batteries in.
We live in a rural area and have a ground-mounted system. I will somewhat stay out of roof mount and let someone else carry that. Roof mounted systems are forced to a set azimuth and angle, may have fixed obstructions, etc. All things that may force more panels to zero out consumption (billing). Using “clean gas” or propane does not appear to be the answer to rising electric rates, highly efficient electrical appliances and solar seems a better solution.
Of course, we may veer into:
1) It’s the leftists liberal fault
2) It’s your voting
3) It’s the utility charging us for negligence
4) Etc
However, if you just wish to discuss what we can do with what we have, then the thread can stay open.
We did not install solar to get money from PG&E, we installed it to try zeroing out our electrical utility bill. We are very close, but still consume a couple thousand kWh annually. I do not put a dollar amount since that is based on when kWh’s are consumed and what the cost per each kWh is at the time. For those who love to see a dollar amount, we are at about $400 annually. This will only go up as rates increase, though my actual kWh may fluctuate. Using dollars versus kWh can be very misleading. kWh consumed, especially WHEN it is consumed, is very revealing.
“Pay back” was not a thought, I concluded “If I am going to spend X dollars paying for electricity each month and “own” nothing after the expenditure, why not spend the same or less per month and own the solar? I had no intent of buying expensive modules and upgrading inverters to send excessive production to PG&E. I wanted the smallest and most efficient producing system. We now spend less per month, and “pay back” is far from some of the long-term numbers I have seen used in conversation.
Zeroing out would mean that my cost would be zero regardless of the rate increases because it would be zero kilowatts being consumed from the utility OR a kWh to an equivalent kWh. I have learned that only by greatly overproducing OR by judiciously using batteries can this be done. Batteries also enable smaller arrays, a huge bonus. Batteries are expensive. However, batteries can take the place of a generator and associated fuel.
I am most likely making errors in one or more statements; the venue should be to help correct errant statements so we may come to an accurate understanding of how we may make use of solar to help with our utility bills. If you prefer a venue on “why we are at this state” please start a new thread. Please, do not also use this to further any personal solar company, if you want to do that, please start your own thread for it.
PAYBACK: I have seen some say “it’s a 20-year payback and then the panels are degraded.” Each person’s “payback” is unique to their consumption, when they consume, their production, what the cost of installation is, the cost per kWh consumed (varies with peak, etc), what they were paying each month for electricity to begin with, what they are paying now, what they will pay in the future. It may well be, for some, it is not worth installing solar. How do you decide?
EXAMPLE (names changed to protect the innocent):
Billy spends $350 per month on electricity. Billy looks at solar. Billy gets a loan of 40k at 5% for 15 years and pays $316.32 per month to install solar. Billy is saving $33.68 per month. The solar, with interest, will cost him $59,937.14. If utility rates stagnated for 15 years, the electricity would have cost him $63,000. Rates will most likely go up, the difference will grow. The system did not pay for itself but he saved money (he did not make money, he spent less).
At 15 years the loan is paid off. Panels degrade over time, but typically last longer than 20 years, some even have a 40-year warranty. Let’s assume the worst, 20. For the next 5 years Billy is spending $10 per month for being connected. He is not spending $340 per month on electricity, he saves $20,400 dollars.
